WK 9: RPG Elements

3/19/2014

Spoof product "Roll-playing for Roleplaying"

To reiterate: D1 was about comparing your player experience narratively and within a player's perspective of the mechanics. It is now time to dive in deep into the mechanics and even math (eek!) of the systems we have played and yes, the one you are now playing on your own for D2. Read it, run it (on your dog if you have no friends), and analyze it in the context of your very broad base of game knowledge from the class so far. If you have not read the texts (Like 2nd Person) parallel to the discussions as listed on the syllabus, I recommend it - since there is far more detailed info there than we could possibly cover in a mere 2 hours and 45 minutes. That said, Dungeons and Desktops for next week is not one you read, rather a reference book meant to be cited. Those of you doing crpgs for D2 will find that book quite valuable. Also below are the presentations as usual, but the second one has in it a few slides we didn't cover in class as well as my "Simple RPG" solution I use to play with high-schoolers when teaching this stuff to them. If you were to turn this in you would not pass the D3, just so you know. I'll be posting that rubric soon.

HW:
1) Begin looking for a tabletop RPG system (not a board-game) you want to do an in-depth review of for D2. Much information about them can be had at http://rpggeek.com/. Remember that it can’t be one of the ones we did at length in class. If you are poor, check out these free game downloads or search for more, but please choose something fairly mainstream with some forum discussion available to you:
http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/freerpgs/
http://sillyhatbooks.com/about/games/
http://www.1km1kt.net/cat/rpg
2) Look over the following two web comics and comment about them below:
DM of the Rings (shamusyoung.com)
Darths and Droids (darthsanddroids.net)

Tabletop RPG Elements by albrackin

Dice Math and Games

12 Comments

Austin Mackintosh

3/21/2014 07:21:27 pm

I’m very fond of both of these comics, so having an excuse to re-read them for credit in class was the highlight of my week. I think the core difference between the two is the GM approach, since these games essentially begin on the drive and ideas of the one running them. DM Of The Rings’ central foundation is the ironclad plot rail which the players struggle hopelessly against, both sides grinding against one another endlessly. The entire campaign is more a pretext to get the players to listen to the GM’s story than for them to play in it; there are no side quests, no rewards but occasional XP, no shops to spend money on even if they had any, nowhere to go on the map but the GM’s next area of interest, and even if they were interested in roleplaying (only Gimli’s player is), no one is particularly interested in talking to them. Players and GM are outright antagonistic toward one another, either bemoaning and attempting to ruin the campaign (on the players’ side) or punishing the players for their misbehavior (on the GM’s). The bickering and undesirable behavior result in both sides looking childish and self-centered, and it’s clear that no one at the table wants to be in another game run by this GM. Re-reading the comic reminded me of our class reading, which emphasized the mutual exclusivity of gameplay and story; this is, of course, a heavy focus on the “story” side of the events; the players may as well be reading a book for all they willingly contribute to the events. Occasional dice-rolling does not a campaign make.

Darths and Droids is largely the inverse of all this. While there is a struggle, sometimes, between players and GM, it’s usually more out of innocent blundering than antagonism, and the GM goes to great lengths to accommodate his group as they leap off his plot rails and into a yawning chasm of unwritten scenery and characters. The campaign is still shy on some traditional RPG staples (loot, stores, arguably side quests), but the players influence or even create (in Sally’s case) the game world on a large scale, as opposed to the ancillary nature of the players in DM of the Rings. Not that he doesn’t aim to get them back for it; the players’ constant evasion of the plot results in their ending up, more or less, as the villains, due to their ruining the plans of well-meaning NPCs (such as Darth Maul and Jango Fett) who would have been perfectly happy to help them if they had played along with the GM’s narrative (or shown some more competence). It still results in a much different table dynamic, and reading it reminds me of why I love these sorts of games; the players and GM are all clearly friends who like each other, and they craft something compelling and enjoyable together. Although inter-group difficulties do occur (sometimes bickering, sometimes problems tied into real life events), the players and GM eagerly return to the story time and again, actually spending years of real-world time on it. The mutual enjoyment generated from a well-intentioned GM and party result in a small, fairly insular group of three turning into a circle of seven (as of A New Hope) who are all genuinely friends.

I enjoy both comics, but I know which table I’d rather be at.

Steven Neal

3/23/2014 10:28:17 am

Being new to RPG's I find a comic like Darths and Droids to have an accurate feeling of playing some of these games. The players want to have as much freedom as possible to play, whereas the GM tries to keep players on track for the quest. Finding the balance of freedom of gameplay with narrative is a complex endeavor.

Patrick Ward

3/23/2014 01:00:19 pm

Much like Steven, I'm new to the world of tabletop RPGs as well, since for most of my life, I've never had anyone to play with. Reading these comics was a pretty fun experience, since I can definitely relate to the wise-cracking character who looks like he isn't taking the game seriously - for me, being lighthearted about the situation and making jokes regarding the game or scenario is a way of loosening up and becoming more comfortable with the people I'm around, but I can understand how people would interpret this as just being "that guy" and ruining the experience for everyone else.

The relationship between the GM and the players in these two comics isn't really what I consider typical (especially from our campaigns in class), but, given my aforementioned ability to relate to the wise-cracking character, I can most certainly see something like this happening in a real scenario.

Josiah Tull

3/23/2014 03:23:28 pm

I, too, am new to RPGs, so I'm incredibly glad to read these. The descriptions under both the comics gave some great advice for GMs. Darths and Droids gives lots of advice on how to allow PCs to have fun while keeping your story on track, and DM of the Rings openly shows you how not to do it.

I've read through all of DM of the Rings and Episode 1 in Darths and Droids and noticed a huge difference in mood. DM of the Rings is crushingly cynical, mocking the overuse of tropes and the constant battle between the GM and his players. Darths and Droids, while poking fun at the same issues, paints them as a fun part of roleplaying. The typical "murder hobo" in DM of the Rings (Aragorn) stays that way for the 200+ page comic, while Darths and Droids' (Qui-Gon/Padme) reveals himself to actually be a highly intelligent Ph.D student who plays roleplaying games as an escape from his normal need for intelligence. What is looked down upon in DM of the Rings is shown as a real area of enjoyment in Darths and Droids.

Dalton

3/24/2014 06:21:10 am

Well, it looks like the most basic aspects of both comic strips have already been discussed: one (DM of the Rings) involves a group with a more on-rails campaign, while the other (Darths and Droids) allows the campaign to be altered based on the player's actions. Both of these campaigns focus on narrative more than mechanics (although there are implied mechanics that aren't discussed, like Qui-Gon having a bunch of blasters in his inventory that he intends to sell).

I also agree with Austin's point that the DM of the Rings' GM is more controlling than the one in Darths and Droids, as the players are constantly coming up with new ideas only to have them refused by the GM as being ineffective. The door that leads into Moria, for instance, cannot be entered except by saying the password (of course, there is a similar situation in Darths and Droids when Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan try to cut through the metal door on the Federation ship, but at least they were able to have an effect on the narrative, by making a second set of doors have to appear). I'd probably prefer to join the Darths and Droids campaign, myself, but campaigns like DM of the Rings may be beneficial for players who are not as accustomed to solving problems in imaginative (or absurd) ways.

I'm also new to tabletop RPG's, by the way, so I'm not sure how legitimate some of these comments may be.

John Cortez

3/24/2014 08:16:54 am

Of the two comics, Darths and Droids is my favorite. The GM tries to keep the players on track of a plot that the players find confusing and full of cliches, while the GM of D&D allows the players to go off track if they pester enough or come up with a better plot. The players actually enjoy the plot because of the changes they can make, even if sometimes they go completely off track or disregard the intitial details set by the GM.

Chao Chang

3/24/2014 08:21:52 am

I really enjoy reading Darths and Droids as I can understand more about the game style which I didn`t really get while playing Star War. In both DM of the Rings and Darths and Droids, player try to break away GM`s control and create their own story about the campaign but GM tired to hold them in certain degree of the story he create. GM cannot plan too much ahead because the players will just keep changing it.

Zachary VanD

3/24/2014 08:29:59 am

I really enjoyed getting to read through both comic strips; they displayed an interesting disparity that I think is relatively indicative of how a lot of tabletop RPG play actually pans out. In particular, I was greatly appreciate of the footnotes added after the Darths & Droids episodes which sought to contextualize the "roleplay" depicted with regards to the culture of tabletop RPGs.
As has already been noted by prior commenters, the most interesting aspect of examining both comics together is the different styles which the GMs employ to craft the table's narrative. From a point of preference, I much appreciated the manner with which the Darths & Droids GM utilized his players' creativity and behavior in a way that constructively added to the narrative experience. Most interestingly, the panel displayed an innovative idea of how to handle failed rolls. Rather than provide an explicit punishment, a failed roll by JarJar's player enabled the GM to take control of a particular story branch (in this particular instance, the failed roll served as an impetus for Boss Nass to bestow the party with a particular quest with which they must comply to achieve their desired goal of receiving Gungan military aid). Using this model, the "tug of war" between player-crafted story and GM-directed story becomes a much more fluid and cooperative experience than in much of DM of the Rings.

3/24/2014 08:31:42 am

I was greatly appreciative*

Sorry for the typo guys :'(

Stefan Babick

3/24/2014 09:17:33 am

After reading through DM of the Rings I realize there is a sort of meta-conversation going between the players and the DM all the time. This back and forth drastically shapes the experience and is directly related to how the players are feeling at any given moment during a session and how they measure progress. If the a group member starts to feel that progress is slowing, they are more likely to behave unexpectedly which can have drastic implications for narrative railed campaigns. Also, the line "...anyone can be a winner if their definition of victory is flexible enough" got me thinking about how perceived pacing and progress are more important than narrative pacing and progress.

Matt M

3/24/2014 09:33:20 am

After reading through both comics, I found that they both portrayed an actual RPG game being played very well. I enjoyed Darth and Droids a little bit more than DM of the Rings, because I felt like the characters in DM of the Rings were a little bit more flat, and I didn't see a lot of those different type of gamer stereotypes used like in Darths and Droids, it was only the one stereotypical tabletop RPG player. I did enjoy the conversations they had with the DM over the course of each game, that was one of the most enjoyable parts, because it really painted the picture of the DM having to be the bad guy a lot and struggling to keep players immersed in his world.

Scott Stephenson

3/24/2014 09:46:48 am

Darth and Droids was a very enjoyable read. Being a Star Wars fan really helped with my over all understanding of the web comic. I had never considered running a movie through my head as an RPG before this, but ill definitely be doing that more in the future. The way to GM just goes along with what the players decide is pretty hilarious, but also a really good point about how RPG campaigns are run. Giving the players the freedom to do what ever they want is one of the main draws to gaming, but in some cases the GM really should take over and direct the story in a more controlled, enjoyable direction. Allowing players to run free without any structured story or plot elements can be dangerous, as the GM has to come up with things on the fly if they didn't world build to take into consideration all the possible choices. There is a fine balance between freedom and plot structure that needs to be taken into account before setting up an RPG. Darth and Droids really brought up a lot of questions for me to ponder over, while still being extremely funny and enjoyable.

WK 9: RPG Elements

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